The Trowel and The Truth - Dr. Scott Stripling’s Journey AlongTheWay 30

From a young age, Dr. Scott Stripling felt called to discover history. His life journey and excavations led him on an incredible adventure of faith and discovery.

His AlongTheWay moments include 

• Life-Long Dreams of Archeology 
• Finding the right Joshua’s Ai
• Dig Shiloh - 4 Horned Altar, Pomegranates, and Bone Deposits
• The Trowel and the Truth
• Keep digging!

Dr. Scott Stripling’s Info

digshiloh.org

scottstripling.net

thebibleseminary.org

Articles by Dr. Stripling

https://thebibleseminary.academia.edu/ScottStripling

Associates for Biblical Research

https://biblearchaeology.org/

Book - "The Trowel and the Truth"

https://www.amazon.com/Trowel-Truth-Guide-Field-Archaeology-ebook/dp/B073X9BMXF

AlongTheWay Links

Join My Email List

JohnAlongTheWay@gmail.com

More episodes and Social links for AlongTheWay

Watch episodes of My TV show RealLife

Transcript

Dr. Scott Stripling : 0:01

He then came along and said, Hey, you know we've got the same problem at I will. If you know the conquest, Jericho and I are the first two sites the conquest, if you lose Jericho and you lose I, you don't have a conquest. And if you don't, you don't have a historical Hebrew Bible. And you know, we are of all men then to be miserable.

John Matarazzo : 0:25

Welcome to along the way. I'm John Matarazzo, your host and fellow traveler, thank you for joining me along my way as I try to become more like Jesus every day. I love talking with fascinating people and learning how God has met them along their way. For this along the way conversation I have the privilege of talking with Dr. Scott stripling. archaeology has always fascinated me and discovering proof of the Bible's authenticity is a dream of mine, that I would love to make a reality someday. Dr. Scott Stribling is living out a dream of mine but he is really willing to put in the required work to dig up that evidence. If you want to know what he has uncovered in the ground, then you will really enjoy hearing our conversation. I'll get to that in just a moment. But I want to make sure that you know that you can hear all of my episodes, even the ones that you've missed by visiting my website along the way dot media, or by simply subscribing to along the way on your favorite podcast app. You can also find along the way on Facebook and Instagram, I started and along the way email subscriber list. If you want to be notified of episodes and any other special announcements, please consider joining my email list. The link will be in my show notes. To reach me electronically. You can email me at John along the way at gmail.com. My social links and web address are in the shadows. I look forward to hearing from you. And now. Here's my along the way conversation with Dr. Scott stripling. Dr. Scott stripling, thank you so much for joining me along the way. It's a pleasure to have you talk with me and kind of join you along your way. You're an archaeologist and a professor and Gosh, you've done so much. It's I'm going to let you kind of explain a little bit more about what you do. But I, I'm super excited to talk with you because you're really a real life Indiana Jones, you're actually digging this stuff up and in Israel and finding proof that the Bible is true, and it is trustworthy. So thank you for being on along the way.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 2:22

Thank you, john, for the invitation, have been looking forward to talking with you and meeting and connecting with your audience. I, as you said, I'm a professor, actually service provost at the Bible Seminary in Houston, Texas. And we have an archaeology program here which I also oversee. And it's a master's level program. And then I'm the director of excavations for ancient Shiloh and still for Kirby Joe McCotter, our previous dig it I while we're wrapping things up there, so never a dull moment as we're working on publications and excavations and But we're living the dream, John. I mean, we get to take the biblical texts, which I love and care about deeply, and the material culture, different witnesses that God has left us, and to synchronize those. And so that's what we'll talk about today.

John Matarazzo : 3:14

That's super cool. So I want to hear about your background and how you got interested in archaeology. Because it's one thing to dig holes in the yard looking for Indian arrowheads, or buried treasure. You know, as a kid, I actually used to draw maps and put x's on it, and then try to follow my own maps to try to find treasure. But obviously, there was no treasure in those areas, but I just created holes in my yard, which eventually my dad ran over with the tractor and then I got in trouble. So how do you take somebody that has a love for digging things and go this step further to actually taking the biblical text to discover what you're doing? How did you get started in archaeology?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 3:55

The Bible was my entree. I was a Bible reader. And I had I had a passion to understand the background of the biblical tax. So I had a sense that when there was a gap of understanding where the text seem to indicate something, and then it didn't fit with other portions of Scripture, let's say, always had a sense that the material culture or the background, cultural background had a lot to do with it. And so I just began to consume everything I could get ahold of that had been written on archaeology and material culture. Ultimately, when it got time to do troll work for me, the only thing that really excited me was archaeology. And, you know, I was already a seminary grad and I thought, you know, how much fighter can we split these theological hairs already split? Right, as I think we're answering a lot of questions. No one's asking much at the time. So I thought, you know, there's a unique contribution that I could make in that field, and I knew that it had been started by Christians but that we were A very distinct minority now, and thought it could make a contribution. So 25 years ago, I saw myself doing exactly what I'm doing right now, which is engaged in the arena of ideas about Bible and archaeology. I just didn't know how it would happen, you know how I would get from here to here. You know how how it is I was faithful and diligent and enthusiastic, I'm sure. And just started working hard and getting involved and worked my way up to the system. So that was my entree.

John Matarazzo : 5:35

Can you take me back to your first big?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 5:38

Yes. I mean, I had done some projects in Texas just to get some training. But you know, it's very different from Texas archaeology as opposed to Ancient Near Eastern where we have stratification so forth. Trello Hi, mom. I began working there. Actually the the began a couple of years before the exit excavation launched and sort of the planning of that. This is eight kilometers northeast of the Dead Sea in Jordan. And I was just so fascinated, I had toured Israel head toward Jordan. But I was very hungry to get into the ground. And when we got there, we had delays on our permits. And I mean, I was just dying to get into the ground. And so there was just this sense of all that, that I had and that I still have really, I mean, one of my favorite verses of scripture, John is Psalm 102, verse 14, blessed are those who love your dust and cherish your stones. And for me, it's a real sacred thing to get to do what we're doing. That's really

John Matarazzo : 6:46

cool. So did you grow up in a Christian family? Have you always known the Lord

Dr. Scott Stripling : 6:50

will? Yes. I add some caveats to that. I'm I mean, I did my mother took me to church from the time I was a newborn. So I didn't grow up knowing the Bible and knowing the stories of the Bible came to faith at an early age. And in just before my senior year of high school really made a serious commitment of my life to Christ, and got involved in ministry stuff right away. And I was very hungry for the Bible and the hints that led me into ultimately archaeology.

John Matarazzo : 7:22

Do you remember the first thing that, that God spoke to you that you realize that he was speaking? Just like generally about my life for it could be anything? Yeah. I'm always interested in to how God speaks to people, you know, because obviously, the first things that as I read the Bible, some of the times that the God first interacts with somebody, those first interactions are pretty important.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 7:44

Sure. I mean, as a child, even I had very, very early on a dream that would then reoccur throughout my lifetime. So I would say very early, like three, not even four years of age, yet A dream where I saw myself as an adult even though I was obviously a child. I saw myself walking through what I would describe as the rooms of a fortress. And I was very interested in the stones and the towers and the features that were in it. And it was very impactful and then it would reoccur throughout my life every few years I would have this dream into my teens and 20s and 30s, and so forth. So when we did our reconstruction drawings from Carbonell, McCotter, sort of after many years of excavation, what we thought the overall plan look like when the architect gave them to me almost fainted, because it was what I had seen in my dream all my life. Oh my gosh, it was just I think God's way of saying to me, I knew the end from the beginning. You know, I was showing all along that I was sovereign Lee in control of your life and guiding your destiny.

John Matarazzo : 8:55

So you just mentioned Kermit l McCotter. Did I say that correctly? Yeah. Could you Yes, okay, I apologize for that. I'll do the best that I can listen to these names. But could you just tell me what, what is the importance of that and what did you guys find there?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 9:12

So Americans say Kermit l McCotter the rest of the world says market theatre so I go back and forth. No bad at all. I'm just having fun with the criminal McCotter is very significant because we have established I believe, after 21 years of excavation that it was the eye of Joshua seven and eight. And that's a problem. Because in the 1960s Joseph Callaway excavated at a site called at tell and pretty much announced to the world that it conflicts with a biblical account that there's no one living at it till at that time, and until probably was the eye of Abraham's day but the name had apparently migrated nearby, which is a common phenomenon in ancient and in modern times. So, this is what led to the founding of our organization the associates for the research was brought by and David Livingston began to investigate this and ultimately launched went back in our to PhD in Ancient Near Eastern Studies and then launched an excavation at Kermit Nicosia, which turned out not to be I did not have the evidence, but the next side that we investigated carpet cutter did and so after, you know many years of excavation, we closed down the dig. And we're now doing our final publications next year in 20. Both volumes one and two, a covenant McCotter will come out which will be the historical record after we're dead and gone of exactly what was excavated there. I think we took the topography, the geography and the archaeology, and established a criteria screen and ultimately the evidence was very strong. This was biblical.

John Matarazzo : 10:56

That's really cool. I'm going to ask you to break down some of that a little bit because I've been kind of trying to follow along with biblical archaeology for a while. But for people that haven't been associated with this or familiar with biblical archaeology, you just mentioned that back in the 60s, I think you said, somebody else had said, this is AI, or this is I, and it doesn't match up with what the Bible says. So you can kind of extrapolate that say that thinking and saying, because this didn't happen the way the Bible said, then you don't, then you can't trust the Bible. As believers in Christ, we know that the Bible is true. So we didn't find evidence here. But you guys found evidence in a different place?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 11:39

Correct? Yes. So I'll contextualize that a little bit. Let's back up to the 1950s. At Jericho, Kathleen Kenyan excavated and her claim that mean she went into it as clearly as an agnostic. But her claim was that the evidence that she uncovered contradicted the biblical text, even though the earlier excavation of Garstang in the 30s had pretty much confirmed this, the media loved it. So when can get announced to the world that the archaeological evidence contradicted the Bible? Well, that was headlines and when Garstang said that it bit very well completed, well, that was a minor story. So this was the first problem. That was the 1950s. Then in the 1960s Callaway, who's was at Southern seminary at the time, like to say he was a good Baptist, but I'm not sure how good he was. We'll just say he was a Baptist. He then came along and said, Hey, you know, we've got the same problem at Well, if you know the conquest, Jericho and I are the first two sites the conquest, right, if you lose Jericho and you lose I, you don't have a conquest. If you don't know conquest, you don't have a historical Hebrew Bible. And you know, we are evolving them to be miserable.

John Matarazzo : 12:58

Yeah, so these are some Big claims that go directly against our faith and what we've been believing forever. What were some of the things that they were looking for but didn't find, but you guys did.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 13:12

Okay? So for example, evidence of occupation at the time that the Bible says the Exodus and conquest occurred. So the biblical date for the exodus is the mid 15th century. And I'll just kind of give you the short version of this. First Kings six one says that in the 480, fifth year, before the building of Solomon's temple, the Israelites exodus from Egypt, so we have an agreed upon date for Solomon's which is 967. So when we add 479 years to that because it was in the 480 here, then that puts us in 1446. We we buttress that date with judges 1126, first Chronicles 633, through 37 Zika 40 verse one x seven. So we got a bunch of other passages that all point you to the mid 15th century BC. So if anyone tries to tell you that the exodus wasn't in the mid 15th century BC, then they've got an issue with those five passages. And I'm the co author of a text coming out for Zondervan next year on five years of the Exodus. And so I wrote chapter one on the early date of the biblical date of the Exodus. And then there's additional views that are there. But everyone would acknowledge that the straightforward reading of the text is it puts you in the mid 15th century BC. The others would say that archaeology contradicts it in the 15th century. I'm saying not at all. We have overwhelming evidence. Yeah, century. So hopefully next year, everybody will get a copy of my book, five years of the Exodus published by Zondervan. But anyway, suffice it to say that that's the date that we start from Callaway at, at tell which you know, they believe that was the eye of Joshua seven and he did not find pottery from that time period. So it was an early Bronze Age site that was destroyed long before Abraham. And the word in Hebrew I or high the ruin, I think is a clue because Abraham pitch just tense between Bethel and I the room. That was a huge city much like 10 times bigger than Jericho, which should be a problem for people who are Bible readers anyway, because you could see that clearly I was smaller than Jericho, but, you know, it's actually 10 times bigger than Jericho. It had been in ruins long before Abraham.

John Matarazzo : 15:38

Okay.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 15:41

That was the main thing is there was no evidence of anyone living there at the time that the Bible says that they were there so he was right about that. He just had the wrong side.

John Matarazzo : 15:50

Okay, so you mentioned Abraham's AI and Joshua was AI are those two different places.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 15:57

They are the names migrated criminal McCotter is about six tenths of a mile from at Tel so at Tel was the eye of Abrams day, that name migrates and this is very common. So I'll give you some examples at Jericho. How many Jericho do you have? Well, New Testament Jericho and Old Testament. Jericho are different things. They're two miles apart.

John Matarazzo : 16:21

Okay.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 16:23

Okay. So, there's your first example right there. Of course 99% of church to go to Jericho only go to Old Testament Jericho, but New Testament Jericho where Jesus went with Zach ES and bottom as I mean, it's phenomenal. CO there. We have lots of examples in the Bible of this and then moderna. I'm hearing Euston right now, guess what the name of Euston was 120 years ago as someone from Pennsylvania you'll love this one.

Unknown Speaker : 16:51

Philadelphia,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 16:53

it was called Harrisburg. Wow. So names change over Time names migrate over time. And that's apparently what happened, they probably want lost their water source. And yet a lot of climate change has happened historically. And so you know, when you get into a drier, warmer environment, the water source sometimes dries up, and then people migrating to nearby sites.

John Matarazzo : 17:23

That's really interesting. That makes a lot of sense. I never really thought about that, because I'm here in Pittsburgh, and we've got rivers. And I'm 34 years old, those rivers have the same footprint they do from whenever, you know, in my entire memory. But if I look at some maps that are older, the rivers of meandered a little bit, so that only makes sense that civilizations would kind of follow where the water is. Yeah,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 17:48

yeah. Number one is as water gotta have it.

John Matarazzo : 17:51

Yeah, for sure. So you mentioned earlier about having difficulty getting permits for some of these digs. Now obviously, Israel is a land that the Jews lay claim to it. And then the Arabs also lay claim to it. So there's, there's a problem there. So how do you guys as Americans, as Christian believers, get permission to do what you're doing?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 18:16

Yeah, that's a human thing is kind of unusual. And I guess that it is. We have 40 years of history. So we just completed since we started in 1979 Livingston's they get nisi and now here we are in 2019. So with a 40 year track record now, you know we know we have relationships and connections and so forth and I'm actually grandfathered in under some of the earlier stipulations and so forth but is to give you a quick picture Israel as modern Israel was divided into three areas area A area be an area see okay, vs some area the ancient heartland lies within areas see what is called depending on your Politics, you can call it the West Bank, you can call it Palestine area see the disputed territory. Each one of these has their own connotations. Our research focus has always been in Judea some area because of the focus on the conquest and the experts. So that's why we're focused on that areas. And quite frankly, if the Palestinians were in control there, then we would be building relationships with Palestinians and getting permits them and right, you know, so we're not don't have a political agenda. We're just simply whoever's in charge. We're trying to do what we need to do to be properly in compliance. Now, the things that we're archaeologists run into problems are twofold. Normally, they don't do their publications on time. So their requirements, um, or they don't get their paperwork, you know, fall on time. So there's reasons why sometimes or restoration we're required to do restoration on our walls and so forth. So many times they don't do that. And then they get sideways with the Antiquities Authority and then make it seem like they're being persecuted. Or, you know, in reality, we're very careful about publications and restoration and permits and everything. So we've always had great relationships. That's,

John Matarazzo : 20:19

that's cool that thank you for explaining that. Because the things that are found in the ground, especially in Israel, we know as, as Christian believers, that it's going to back up what the Bible is saying. And since there's other people laying claim to that same land that's really proof is in the ground of ownership. And so I could see how that could be some really sticky situations might occur, but Oh,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 20:40

that's right. But you know, we had work with with Palestinians and now at Shiloh, we are part of a Jewish community they are and so we've got a very warm and welcoming relationship there not only with the Antiquities Authority that you also need to cultivate relationships with the local community as well. Okay. So, we've never been viewed as outsiders because that part of the world jackets, most of the world runs on relationships. And so the over time really invested in relationships. And so, you know, they earn trust.

John Matarazzo : 21:14

Yeah. So you're currently you've been spending a lot of time in biblical Shiloh. And you've been there for the past few seasons, I think four years or something like that, as

Dr. Scott Stripling : 21:25

we're planning right now for season four.

John Matarazzo : 21:27

Okay. I want to talk a little bit about what's a lot about what's what's going on in Shiloh but how did you find Shiloh

Dr. Scott Stripling : 21:35

will? Edward Robinson actually gets credit for finding it and he was reading his Bible and that's how he found it. That's a good

John Matarazzo : 21:42

way to start the final things. Yeah.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 21:45

Go figure. The biblical geography is very specific about where Shiloh was located. He just followed the biblical track and let him right to what was called qubit saloon. She loaned siloed. And so you know, the name was very similar what we call upon me. And so he he identified it as tribal. It turns out that he was right now, how did we get there? Shiloh was excavated in the night teen starting from 1922 to 1932. For four seasons in that 10 year block by the Danish met their methods. Of course, by modern standards, we would see them as primitive but they did four seasons of work. Israel Finkelstein, who is sort of the leader of the minimalist school of thought and Israel, excavated at Shiloh on behalf of bar along University for four seasons in the early 80s. So there had been two previous digs, but only 5% of the site was excavated. And I thought what we needed at Shiloh was a bigger dig that would take their the work of the Danish the work of Finkelstein, connect them open up a much broader area. It's my view that we're subject to misinterpretation. We're doing narrow slices and I wanted to open up a broad area so that we could be confident about the historical record that was there about, I don't know, six or seven years ago, through friendships at with people that Shiloh people who I was employing on our previous dig. They saw the excellence of our work, they saw what we were doing what we were all about. And they began to began a conversation with us about what it would look like if we came to Charlotte. Well, I was thrilled about the possibility because we were in the wild west occur without McCotter, no water, no bathrooms, you know, very difficult sort of a dig, but it's what God wanted us to do. So, you know, I was committed to finishing that. But over a period of about three years, we've processed through that and it seemed like you know, we had completed our research goals, and the door open the Antiquities Authority wanted us to go the people at Shiloh welcomed us, our organization felt good that you We should do that. So that's how the door open for us to go to Shiloh.

John Matarazzo : 24:04

So the land has already been kind of determined that this is where Shiloh is. Could you just give us a quick biblical background of the importance of Shiloh what happened in in, in the Bible and some of the clues for things that you're looking for now?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 24:17

Okay. You the references to Shiloh come from Joshua and judges. So for example, at the end of the conquest around the Earth 1399 Joshua 18. One says that Joshua erected the tabernacle at Shiloh and it was there that he gave the tribal allotments there were seven tribes who still didn't have their inheritance. Their their allotments from Shiloh, the Mishcon the tabernacle is erected there and this becomes the Center for Israelite worship for over three centuries. You have references in Judges 18 through 21 several references to Shiloh in there We have of course First Samuel narrative the first few chapters of for Samuel, we have the birth and you know, growing up of Samuel and then the capture of the Ark of the Covenant and the death of Eli and then the exchange Shiloh is is abandoned at that point. The prophets Jeremiah in particular allude back to Shiloh. So, Jeremiah 712, God says to Jeremiah, go now to Shiloh See what I did there? Because of their evil and make it known don't think that I love Jerusalem more than I love Shiloh, he says, so don't think I will punish Jerusalem for its wickedness. See what I did it shine. And then you have Psalm 78, that also mentions Shiloh. There is it doesn't explicitly say in the text, and this is a good example of the value of the relationship between Bible and archaeology. The text doesn't specifically say that the Philistines destroyed child Okay, said The Ark was taken at Ebenezer the matter of fact, you know, there's destruction, but there's an implication. And for example, in Psalm 78, you get this implication of the destruction also in Jeremiah. So can archaeology then illuminate the text? Okay? And the answer is yes. So this last summer, then this is exactly what we had a plaster floor surface with what we would call iron to be pottery on top of it. So then logically, that's a sealed locusts. And so for us, that's really important. That means there's no contamination underneath that for what was that term that you used a seed of locusts sealed? Oh, it's an old locusts, okay. So that means no contamination, I can have the dates underneath that floor. So then when we remove the floor, we can get good clean carbon dates and the pottery then, and we'll see if they match and So indeed, they did. In fact, that Estimated in advance that it should be about 1075 is what I would expect. We had a destruction layer, we got good carbon material for dating, and then very, very clean and readable ceramic dates as well. So we placed it about 1075. Which synchronizes almost I almost exactly with what there would have been if there were a Philistine destruction. That's what it would have been. Wow. So that's an example of archaeology illuminating or clarifying the text. It doesn't change the text. It just illuminates. Sure.

John Matarazzo : 27:32

Yeah, because there's some there's certain things that, you know, Jeremiah would have been writing that in culture, he would have just known or people that would have that would have heard what he had to say or read what he had to say, would have just known what that meant. A couple thousand years later, we're at a loss with some of those things, so that bringing illumination to the text. That's really cool. So Shiloh was the capital previous to Jerusalem.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 27:57

Yes. So it's a big deal. It's a huge deal. And because of the sacrificial system, I mean, you think about it without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin. So through this sacrificial system that we are able to repair our fractured relationship with God vertically through sin, and our relationships with each other through through sin when we fracture these sacrifice gave them a means by which they could do that. Now, of course, as Christians, we see this as foreshadowing the Christ. But the question is, do we have a material culture that substantiates a sacrificial sit? If there was a sacrificial system there for three centuries? There should be evidence? Sure. Ultra? And the answer is Yes, there is. And if you'd like to know about it, I can tell you some about it.

John Matarazzo : 28:50

Please, I would love to hear about that. Because sacrifice is all throughout the Old Testament, and as New Testament believers in the 21st century We don't get it. I mean, we, we know that Jesus forgives us of our sins. But before Jesus, his sacrifice, there was an entirely different system. And it as New Testament believers, it helps us to understand what was going on there. So yeah, please shed light on that.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 29:17

So we have a number of, I guess the word that I would use is voicera. Submit to verisimilitude. Do we find in the material culture what we would expect to find based on what we read? So if if we have a sacrificial system, what evidence is would there be of that and so I'll give you several number one. We have storage rooms on the inside of the perimeter wall that appear apparently go the entire perimeter around Shiloh which is five acres Incidentally, inside the wall. There's no other side in Israel or anywhere else as far as that goes that has storage rooms running the entire perimeter on Inside, so why would shy when no other site that will John, how did you pay your time in Bible times?

John Matarazzo : 30:07

By livestock? Yeah, or grain or things

Dr. Scott Stripling : 30:12

of that nature? You mean you didn't go to tabernacle.org and make a secure online donation? No, I didn't text to give back

John Matarazzo : 30:19

then now.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 30:22

Did you write a check? No, no cash coins aren't even going to be invented for another almost thousand years at that point. No, you're exactly right. You brought commodity. And so what do we have storage rooms full of storage jars, by the way, from the period of the tabernacle, and so that's verisimilitude. Okay, we also have a bone deposit and far more bone that we have found at other sites that we've excavated. And in this bone deposit, we have a predominance of bones from the right side of the animal. More bones from the right side than the left side and I'm talking many, many thousands of bone. So it's not an anomaly. Oh, wow, Jonathan Bible reader, you have a big advantage that isn't limited because then you have a big advantage over, say, an archaeologist who's not I mean, let's say that you know, you gorilla Can I don't well, then you've got an advantage even though that you grew the clinic trip better than I would. Likewise as a as a student of the Bible, you would have an advantage in that literature. And the Bible is our number one source, John, it's our go to source in that part of the world. Will we read in Leviticus seven that the right side of the animal belonged to the priest? It was the priestly portion. Okay, now, just think about that. That's pretty phenomenal, isn't it? Here we have bones that are 3400 years old, and the predominance are from the right sign up from the left. Wow. Well, verisimilitude so now we've got started drums and we've got bone analysis. We have ceramic pomegranates that we are excavating. They're just about 20 centimeters in size. And we have to Why? Who cares about the pomegranate? Well, everybody talks about the hymn of the priests garment and the bills, the bells get all the attention, but there's something else on the hem of the garment. Okay, pomegranates, bells and pomegranates on the hymn of the priests garments. Now, I'm not claiming that the pomegranates were finding come from Eli's robe. I mean, I can't prove that. Sure. What I'm saying is that it is the sacred fruit. It's the only fruit that goes into the presence of God and represents its nature. In Solomon's temple. You have hundreds of pomegranates, no other fruit or only the pomegranate, that adorn Solomon's temple. I just published an article on this people can get it off on my academia.edu page if they want it on on the pomegranate the I'll get a link from that and put it in the show notes. Okay. So, pomegranates have been found in other sites in Israel but only at live medical sites.

John Matarazzo : 33:08

Interesting. Okay,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 33:09

so now Do you see what we're getting? verisimilitude, we have pomegranates. We have bone analysis. We have storage rooms and, and other and we have like this summer it's no secret. We've already done a press release. We have apparently the remains of a $400 that will cut

John Matarazzo : 33:29

for horned, alter, alter. Okay. And that's amazing. I read about those,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 33:37

I guess. Well, it's when we got the first horn and then the second one was was overwhelmingly exciting for us. At Shiloh for horn vaulter, Jerome in the fifth century drunk who wrote the bowl game. When he visited Shiloh, he said that the altar was still that he saw the old way. We don't know if this is what he was talking about or not, but What I've given you in the last five minutes 400, altar pomegranates, bone analysis, storeroom, and there's a lot more. But do you see what I'm talking about? That's verisimilitude. A site where the Mishcon was for three centuries, we're finding what we would logically expect

John Matarazzo : 34:18

the Michigan, which we have the tabernacle. Okay. So the tabernacle is for those people that that need a little bit of understanding on that. That's the place where God's presence was inhabited. You had the Ark of the Covenant, which Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, this is what that was modeled after and then you had the tabernacle. So it was the pre temple, I guess we could say, yeah. Okay, just trying to put some context into that. Those are amazing finds. How does that make you feel when you are uncovering some of these things that you've read about in the Bible? Well, it is

Dr. Scott Stripling : 34:55

awesome. I mean, some we get Of course busy we we work long days and we're swinging deprived and all that but in the midst of all that, you do sort of stop and gain perspective that you know, what we're doing is really awesome, really important and as an archaeologist, but also then as a believer, this has been very important faith connections for me as well. And we have a lot of interest you know, we have every day on site and like runner right now we're doing this interview, but I mean, almost every day there's an interview, there's, you know, whoever it is Fox News, The New York Times the 700 Club TV and next week has a four part series that's starting on, on our dig. There's a lot of interest because Shiloh matters, yeah, and it gets back to the Jericho and I and that's what the TB and four part series by the way, which I take them through is four sides, Jericho, I mount Eva, and Shiloh and really though I chose those four sides because It deals with that initial question. Do you have a reliable biblical text? Can you trust the Bible? Yeah. And so I'm in a position now. Because the media is asking me questions, secular and, and, and faith based media. On almost a daily basis, I get to talk about why I think the Bible is a reliable historical document and what evidence that we're finding of that if someone wants to debate I'm very comfortable with that. I mean, I'm not an antagonistic type person. I just love to engage in the arena of ideas. And I've got really good ideas and evidence, I think, I've would love to talk with someone about

John Matarazzo : 36:41

Yeah, I know, I've had conversations with people telling them about Jesus where they'll say to me, there's no proof that the Bible was true. There's no proof that this things happened. And then I can I refer to archaeological digs and things like that. But, you know, then they want to know who did that. You know, where do I find that resources. I'm like, well, heard it somewhere and I can help you find it, but to be the guy, that you're actually the person that is finding these things, and that's really cool. So this is your own research, that God has led you to dig in certain areas and to find different things into interpret what these are. That's just phenomenal. So now I'm going to point people back to Scott stripling.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 37:26

Well, I thank you for your kind words. And believe me, I'm very humble. He humbly recognize that that how fortunate I am. Our website is big shiloh.org for those that want to visit, and they can find my articles and our big day to just have any Bible question really, they can just type it in there. And they'll get all kinds of good articles from people who actually are scholars and believe the Bible. My personal website is Scott stripling.net. And my school website is the Bible seminary.org and we have a just a fantastic faith based seminary people can do distance ed with us. And as I said, we have an archaeology program. And we've got a growing number of students that are, you know, connecting in with what, what, what I'm finding is there's a great hunger and we have people, people realizing, hey, you actually believe the Bible, and you're doing rigorous scientific research. So we have a lot of people connecting with us.

John Matarazzo : 38:28

That's really cool. I'll make sure to provide those in the show notes as well, those links for Scott part of this along the way, interviews that I do, I like to go back into people's lives and ask the questions about where was Jesus walking with you that you didn't realize at the time, but as you look back, you realize, Oh, my gosh, Jesus was right there this whole time with me. I don't want to miss those moments. And so I'd like to learn from maybe one of those moments in your life where you realize that Jesus was there.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 38:55

Well, I can say that there were a lot of things that seem to be divergent. paths that all now at this point in my life have all merged back together to help me and enable me and empower me to do what I'm doing. For example, I have a master's degree in English, but that seems like a diversion. Taking time to do such a thing, yet, people laugh. I can actually quote Charlemagne along with Leviticus. But, um, you know, I do so much writing now. I mean, I'm just overwhelmed with our writing and publications, well, didn't hurt that I had, you know, strong background in writing. seminary. Well, it turns out that the biblical text is critical to evaluation of what we're doing, you know, and having exegetical and Herman medical expertise, if you will, was just just absolutely critical. So, I would say, you know, being so much Books fast speaking churches almost every weekend, you know, the ability to articulate our, our thoughts and our concepts effectively is critically important. So all of those things God was orchestrating. I didn't necessarily maybe this sounded like a cacophony of sounds at the time, but now it's beginning to sound like a symphony is all of these. Yeah,

John Matarazzo : 40:20

that's really cool. Yeah, it's, it's, I love seeing how God has orchestrated those steps. Because, you know, the Bible says that man plans his ways, but the Lord directs his steps. Your Life has definitely been proof

Dr. Scott Stripling : 40:31

of that. Well, that's right. And people who around me know my favorite verses that I'm always spouting off that James for to for example, means a lot to me. You did not have if you did not ask. Or for three you did not have because you asked the wrong way. And so I've learned to ask him to ask the right way. And usually God lets me have what I want. That's cool.

John Matarazzo : 40:54

Scott, if you could go back and visit the younger version of yourself before you got started in archaeology maybe, or somewhere along that path where you might have been discouraged, and you just kind of would need advice from future. Scott, where would you go back to? And what would you say to yourself?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 41:09

Well, I mean, I was involved in ministry at an early age. And of course, you know, there's there's all kinds of trials and tribulations that come with that. I had a sense that God had a great plan for my life. And I think at the time, maybe some people perceive that as arrogance, maybe there was. But I think we should all have that sense that, that God loves me. He cares about me as a great plan for my life. It wasn't just me I was saying, you know, God loves me and you the same way. I would say to the younger me, be patient rest in the Lord, you know, people's acceptance of God's plan for your life that'll come later on just be patient. Certainly, I have learned patience now. But once I did get involved in RK Gee, let's say a 25 years ago, approximately, I felt like God spoke to me and said, I'm going to give you an indomitable spirit. Nothing will ever be able to discourage you dissuade you, whatever overwhelm what would seem overwhelming for people when they would look at it is not even going to bother you in the least it's going to just rest I'm going to give you abundant grace and an indomitable spirit. And that is the way it has been for 25 years there has never, no matter how difficult or all the challenges at whatever it is never faced.

John Matarazzo : 42:37

Yeah, you've mentioned a lot of verses already. But I'd like to ask also about do you have a life verse that you Scott, anchor to?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 42:44

Yeah. JOHN 330 means a lot to me. He must increase but I must decrease. I mean, I think as a disciple as a follower of Christ, you know, that's certainly one of those life verses. I've given you someone a to 14 is an archaeological verse Jeremiah 12 means and what we're doing right now, I love that. So yeah, I guess if I had to say a life verse, there's so many from the Proverbs. And that means a lot to me. But I guess john 330 would be the one I would say probably means the most.

John Matarazzo : 43:19

That's cool. Now in your personal life, what are some of those resources that you use to continue to develop yourself and to grow, you know, something that you would recommend for me? podcast videos, teaching series books, anything like that, what's something that you use that you would recommend?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 43:37

So much of the reading that I do, it's just to keep up with the field and there's so much going on and and then I'm doing a lot of writing, because I'm Volume Two of criminal McCotter. I'm trying to get that off my plate. And then as I mentioned, that book that we just finished and the articles and it's just never ending the relationships that I have, I think, beat me People that I'm in close relationship with, I draw from them. And you know, they draw from me that means a lot. I read not only in archaeology and not only in the Bible, I do try to read my Bible every day and meditate on it. And that's the greatest source of strength and resource for me. But you know, I read outside that too. I have a broad range of interests and so forth in sports and politics and religion and anthropological sociological type things. So life in general interests me. So I would say the relationships, the things that I I'm reading, they're all meaningful. I'm looking at my book. Yeah, I mean, I've read things like for example, here's a companion to Biblical interpretation and early Judaism. Some people that might be totally boring, but then here's the novel by Clive customer, who's the best New York Times bestselling novelists called Crescent dawn. And you know that I've got a bunch of different Bibles lying around that I'm reading on to.

John Matarazzo : 45:09

I like that. Do you have any for somebody that's interested in archaeology but just needs to get their feet wet? And first, Could you recommend some sort of like archaeology for dummies or something or biblical archaeology for dummies? What would be a good recommendation from you? Okay,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 45:25

they must, they must definitely start with my book, the travel and the truth. So the travel and the truth second edition, they can get it online very easily. From a jillion different resources, that's where they should start. That'll give them a really good starting in the in that book, I recommend a lot of different resources to go at.

John Matarazzo : 45:47

Very good. I'll make sure to put that in the show notes as well. Because this is this is a topic that really does interest me. And I love the fact that the Bible is true. It's the foundation of our faith, but it is is truth it really did happen when the Bible says it happened, it happened, we can trust it. And well, yeah,

Dr. Scott Stripling : 46:05

I'll give you an example. The Bible talks about a mountain, or a river or I can take you to the mountain in the river. Rip real people, real places, really events. That's you can't say the same thing for other faiths, necessarily. Our Mormon friends have a good bit of crisis that they're dealing with because the Book of Mormon gives you rivers and cities that there's no evidence that right, them exists a minute, the Bible says there was a city or a river or a mountain or whatever. I mean, you go there and it's there. Right? I said, Robin, so read it and letting my right disciple.

John Matarazzo : 46:42

That's amazing that the map is really just right there. You know, it's just written in the text. That's super cool. I know in 2003 2004 I was in Israel for six weeks from December to January. And we didn't mean those six weeks. We saw so many things. biblical sights and it just opened my mind up to what actually, I'm reading in the Bible. And so sometimes I'll read the Bible and kind of close my eyes and I can picture some of those places. And it changes my perspective completely. So I want to thank you so much for what you're doing, that you're changing perspective, giving perspective, but really pointing to the truth that the gospel is really the truth that we can really trust that Jesus is our Savior. Because we can trust that this whole Bible thing is real. And one more question, how many more seasons are you planning on being in Shiloh? And I guess the follow up to that is what's what's after that?

Dr. Scott Stripling : 47:40

So we for sure have two or three more seasons to go just to finish our initial field that we're in maybe four or five. It's hard to know exactly, because we're just beginning to reach bedrock in some of our squares. But once we answer those initial research goals, what has Is other questions arise in the process? Sure. And so we could spend the next 20 years at Shiloh with no problem and contribute and understand the biblical world much, much better. And I think that would be awesome. There are other projects that are in the offing that I can't really mentioned them, but other projects that are of great interest to me. And, you know, I'll just trust God that he'll open the right door at the right time. Someone asked me the other day, what would it take to get you away from Shiloh? I said, Well, it would have to be pretty good. Because we're really, really happy now. We think we're in that arena of ideas, but I do have my eyes on some other projects.

John Matarazzo : 48:42

And so we'll have to keep our eyes on you to see where you're where you're heading. Well, Scott, thank you so much for allowing me to join you along your way.

Dr. Scott Stripling : 48:51

Thanks, john. I enjoyed it very much.

John Matarazzo : 48:56

I was so excited to talk with Dr. Scott stripling because he is literally just Covering evidence buried in the ground that is proving the Bible to be true. The Bible does take faith to believe in but when the rocks and dust actually back up what you read in the Word of God, that faith becomes even stronger. The associates for Biblical research have been heroes of mine for many years, they have literally followed the Word of God as their map, and it has led them right where to dig, if they can trust the Bible for where to dig, and they actually find evidence of truth that I can trust the Word of God to guide my everyday life to. You see, it's easy to say that the Bible is nothing but a fairy tale and myths, because it's full of unbelievable stories of men and women doing incredible things. Well, when you can actually find evidence that these places are real and the events are historical, then you find yourself at a crossroads. One way is to keep living your life in ignorance and continue believing that there is no God and life is just full of chance and fiction. Or you can say, Well, here is verisimilitude, the appearance of being true or real. This evidence is forcing me to say, if this is true and trustworthy, then maybe the rest of the Bible is true too. And if the rest of the Bible is true, then maybe Jesus really is who He says He is. And I can trust Him to forgive the sins of my past and lead my life into the future. I had a moment like that in my life where I came to a place that I was looking for answers for my own faith. I grew up in a Christian family, but I wanted to know for myself if this Jesus was real, was really God, and I could trust him with my life. That started my interest into apologetics, which is the defense of our faith. apologetics includes archaeology and the proof discovered in the ground. There is evidence all around us. You don't even need to go to Israel in the Middle East. The Bible says that the heavens declare the glory of God. Just look up. I'm hoping to have another along the way conversation about the story in the stars. I have a guest in mind but I haven't worked out the details to Do that interview yet? Please stay tuned for that episode. Jesus said that if we don't worship, the rocks will cry out. Well as Dr. Scott stripling has discovered, even the rocks can't help but cry out and worship of God. They are continuing to point to the one true God. I am still amazed at what they have found as Dr. Stribling continues to dig at Shiloh, the storage rooms, loan deposits from the right side of the animal ceramic pomegranates, and even the four hoard altar. Wow, all these things were mentioned in the Bible, and they have been found. I'm so grateful for people like Scott, who have continued to be examples by trusting in the Word of God and literally using it as their map. He mentioned some other past archaeologists who excavated but didn't find what they were looking for. So they declared that the Bible was wrong. I find it interesting that Kathleen Kenyon and the other archaeologists made their conclusions based on the lack of evidence rather than the preponderance About bananas, but they weren't even in the right location. So it's easy to say, well, they had the wrong location. So of course, they wouldn't find what they were looking for. Well, that makes me wonder about my own life, and how I make my decisions. Am I looking for what is there? Or what isn't there? And where am I looking for those answers? Am I digging in the right location? As long as we keep looking for real evidence and not give up when we don't find what we want? I think we'll be in good shape. And remember, blessed are those who love your dust and cherish your stones. Let's keep digging. For more information about Dr. Scott Stribling check out dig shiloh.org Scott stripling.net and the Bible seminary.org. His books, the trial and the truth is available now. And coming soon. The five views of the excess I'll be providing links in the show notes. Thank you for listening to along the way. If you've enjoyed joining me along my way, please share this episode with a friend who you think will be encouraged by this podcast. Also, please give a five star rating and review along the way on iTunes that will help more people discover along the way. And you can subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. Make sure to follow me on Facebook and Instagram and always check my website along the way dot media. You can also email me at John along the way at gmail. com. I hope that you've enjoyed this part of my journey. And may you realize when Jesus is walking with you along your way